A central task of Conciliar Post involves the gathering together of Christians from various traditions in order to reflect upon important issues. As author Stephen Sutherland reminded us in a post a few weeks ago, however, we must understand the purpose and appropriate use of ecumenism: “If good rules make for good neighbors and housemates, maybe a clearer understanding of what it means to be ecumenical can do the same here.”

The topic of this Round Table is Christian Unity, and to stimulate this discussion we asked our contributors to respond to the following question: It is possible for Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant Churches to achieve meaningful unity, and what will that unity look like? Represented in this Round Table are Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Reformed, and Lutheran perspectives on true Christian unity. Each author has offered their own answer to this question, as well as offering some reflections upon their fellow participant’s views.

Below each article you will see three links that will unfold to reveal each authors’ response to the varying contributions. If you “Click to see the response” the response will appear.


George_Aldhizer_75pxGeorge Aldhizer

Reformed Perspective


As a Reformed Protestant, I believe this question needs to be taken down two different routes. The first is to ask whether or not I, and the Protestant tradition, still have something to protest about. If not, then “meaningful unity” would require assimilation. If yes, then what would “meaningful unity” look like as Protestants continue to protest? The second question, the more embarrassing one to ask, is what meaningful unity should look like amongst Protestants, who form new denominations (and non-denominations) by the day. My answers to these questions are indebted to the work Peter J. Leithart has done both here and here.

Going down the first route, do Protestants still have something to protest about? It seems to me that they do on crucial theological/liturgical/ecclesiological issues. These would include, though not limited to, issues of sola scriptura, salvation by faith alone, papal authority, purgatory, veneration of the Host, and Mariology. These are not trivial issues, and both Protestants and Catholics would recognize these as extremely important disagreements that are cause for both disagreement and separation.

Now, what would ecumenism, or in this roundtable’s terms, “meaningful unity” look like, given that there is legitimate reason for disagreement and separation? Leithart argues that the best ecumenism would both lessen and heighten friction within the Church. As for the lessening of tension, Leithart envisions Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox praying for each other (this requires being aware of each other), local congregational leaders meeting with one another, the problems of one church (i.e. sexual abuse within the Catholic Church) recognized as a problem of the whole, and recognizing the commonalities of the traditions prior to recognizing the differences. I think this emphasis from Leithart is most poignant for the local city and local churches, in which congregations are called to meet, understand, pray, and work for the common good together. This also has to be enacted both across traditions and across socioeconomic/racial groups. As for the heightening of the tension, the best ecumenism (like I believe we work to do here on this blog) would require recognizing the serious differences between the traditions, and having open dialogue about them. These dialogues, I believe, would greatly lessen the ignorance that occurs throughout such as when Protestants are denied the Eucharist in Catholic churches and when Protestants denounce Catholics as not being brothers and sisters in Christ.

As for the second route, how might Protestants achieve meaningful unity? Certainly there is great reason for assimilation, given the widespread theological/liturgical/ecclesiological agreement. I am envisioning a few Presbyterian denominations, a few Methodist denominations, a few Pentecostal denominations, etc. etc. The fact, as Leithart points out, that tiny Presbyterian denominations appear each month that each adhere to the Westminster Standards is inexcusable.

To conclude, the best ecumenism between the traditions and amongst Protestants must mean both lessening and heightening of tensions. This should result in greater unity in awareness, understanding, meeting for prayer, working for the common good, and assimilation amongst Protestants.

 

George Aldhizer

Author at Conciliar Post

Authors’ response to Reformed perspective

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Do Protestants still have something to protest about? Some do, and that is why new denominations form every year. That is why what was once simply Lutheranism is now LCMS, ELCA, WELS, why Methodism has so many churches, and the like. Many still do protest, and define their beliefs as what is not Catholic. You indicate that issues such as Mariology are points of protest. The historical reality is that many original Protestants – Luther, Calvin, Wesley, etc – all venerated Mary and incorporated her deeply into their theologies on topics such as the Incarnation. It is as Protestantism has become defined against Catholicism that our Blessed Mother has been left out in the cold (another First Things article provides reference). You are right to point out that these are not trivial disagreements. I believe that study of Church History for people of all denominations, indeed the study of Church History as an ecumenical venture, can lessen ignorance and increase potential for unity. Is there great discomfort for a Protestant to learn their denomination’s founder venerated Mary, upheld the practice of private confession, and prayed for the intercession of the saints? Yes there is. Yet when I learned this about Martin Luther, I now perceive less distance, in both theology and practice, between myself and my Lutheran brothers and sisters. Finally, I greatly value your remark about the importance of collaboration for meaningful unity. So much denominational differences can be lessened when we imitate Christ through the giving ourselves to the least of our brothers and sisters. 

-Laura Ehlen

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What is the primary purpose or intent behind protest? I believe when we approach significant variations among church bodies, our goal should be to move toward reform of those issues we disagree on rather than pure protest and separation. Luther’s goal, for example, was not to create a separate church body but to try and amend errors he saw in the established church at the time. Obviously the reformation did lead to plenty of splits, but while there are certainly issues of contention between denominations that should not be ignored or undermined, there is already a greater sense of unity than can come from an approach geared toward reform over separation. As believers in the Christian faith, we should wish for unity among our various denominations even if a perfect unity is impossible. Consequently, we should clearly define our beliefs and acknowledge where we believe others are wrong, but we should then approach our brothers and sisters of differing beliefs with loving and compassionate dialogue to try and aid them in seeing their errors.

-Nicholai Stuckwisch

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From what I can tell, you are effectively calling for a cease-fire on all sides of inter-Christian hostility; I completely agree this way of thinking. The entirety of Christendom needs to lay down their arms and seek “edifying dialogue” (also to put it in Conciliar Post terms). But not just dialogue—union through friendships, prayer, charity, etc. When we are talking about the reunion of the Church as a whole, however, what it ultimately comes down to is the Eucharist—for by it and through it are we are one body: the body of Christ.

“Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.” (1 Cor 10:16-17, NASB)

“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.” (John 6:53, NASB)

What does this mean for the Evangelical churches who do not confess the presence of Christ in the Eucharist? God is merciful. You definitely have it right, though—we should love one another, develop friendships, and seek to serve with one another. Far too long have varying Christian’s of different traditions maintained a hostility toward one another. Thanks for your contribution, George.

-Ben Cabe

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Ben Cabe

Orthodox Perspective


The fragmentation of the Christian Church, and subsequently of the Christian witness, is a travesty. The East (Eastern Orthodox) and West (Roman Catholics) have been engaged in serious dialogue over the past several decades about the reunion of our Churches. But what would this unity look like and how would it be achieved? I believe it worth noting that reunion, or unity, would effectively consist of the ability to participate together in the Eucharist. This is because:

“The unity of the Church is created by the Eucharist. The Church is held together, not from the outside by power of jurisdiction, but from within. Through communion in the Lord’s body and blood.” [1]

With this in mind, it must be acknowledged that the unity of the Church is vastly more complicated when the Protestant / Evangelical churches (spanning nearly 41,000 varying denominations) are thrown in. First and foremost, the belief in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist is not even shared between many of us (or even between Evangelicals for that matter—depending on who we include in this label). For this reason, I believe that, if the Evangelical churches desire to be included in this reunion, they would first have to fold back into either the Eastern or Western Churches. The Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, however, share a rich history. Though certain dogma’s have prevented the two Churches from reuniting as of yet, I am extremely hopeful that the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches will be able to reunite around the Lord’s table. His Eminence Metropolitan Kallistos Ware notes that,

“Christian unity does not mean uniformity. In a reunited Christian Church there could be room for many forms of worships, for many patterns of theological thinking, for many different forms of Church governments. We do not have to agree over details. What we are seeking is agreement in the faith. And the faith is not the same as theological opinions.” [2]

But this does not mean the lowest common denominator—as, perhaps, an Evangelical would suggest—for “we are to agree on a maximum not a minimum.” [3] This is “union in legitimate diversity” [4] —a diversity, however, that is tempered by the longstanding tradition of the Church and Her sacraments: by the very nature of this, Protestantism would be excluded unless they reform, revert, back to the original Christian Tradition. In the meantime, I believe we, Orthodox and Catholic alike, should pray for this reunion and seek friendship with one another in anticipation of what may come—for the unity of the Church, as Met. Kallistos says and as is clear in John 17, is the desire of our Lord. [5]

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[1] Pope and Patriarch in Rome: Future Opportunities –Lecture by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware

http://www.ancientfaith.com/specials/lectures_by_metropolitan_kallistos_ware He goes on to say that, “This is very clear from what St. Paul says in 1. Cor. 10:16-17: one of the most important texts in the New Testament.”

[2] Ibid

[3] Ibid

[4] Ibid

[5] John 17

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Ben Cabe

Editor-in-Chief at Conciliar Post

Author at BenCabe

Authors’ response to Orthodox perspective

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You articulate so concisely and so powerfully what meaningful unity would and should look like: the Eucharist. The dripping blood and the broken flesh of Christ serve to unify us in Him, so without incorporation into Christ through the Eucharist, how can we be members of the same body? Because of the utmost importance of this and the other sacraments, I agree with you that Evangelical churches must return to communion with the Eastern and Western Churches. As you indicate, this communion demands a high degree of doctrinal unity, but also allows for significant diversity. An excellent example of this is the reincorporation of the Eastern Catholic churches into full communion with Rome. They maintained their liturgies, their languages, their saints, and certain aspects of their theologies, yet they are still part of the Catholic Church and thus part of its hierarchy, doctrine, and practice.

-Laura Ehlen

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The Lord’s Supper is definitely the pinnacle of Christian unity. As the very body and blood of our Lord and Savior, Holy Communion should be treated with the uppermost reverence, and to participate in the Eucharist with others is an affirmation of your shared faith and united beliefs. Consequently, it seems the Lord’s Supper should be the final frontier in trying to achieve church unity, and two denominations should not come together to participate in the Eucharist unless they agree not only on the significance and substance of that sacrament, but in the great majority of religious confessions. I am not at all suggesting that Ben is undermining the importance and seriousness of the Lord’s Supper, but I believe that Holy Communion should serve as the capstone of Church unity to be shared only when agreement and consistency have been established on the means of salvation, the importance of baptism, the relationship between law and gospel, and other significant matters.

-Nicholai Stuchwisch

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Ben’s post, very rightly I believe, explains that Christian unity should not be understood as of the lowest common denominator, neither as uniformity, but as “union in legitimate diversity.” I think it is worth emphasizing that I believe all three branches of Christendom (with some exceptions) do believe and practice “in the maximum and not the minimum.” The more I interact with Catholics and Orthodox, the more I find we have in common. It confuses me when he then centers the unity of Christians on a particular theology of the Eucharist, which then excludes Protestants from union with the other two branches of Christendom. Given that we all believe each other to be brothers and sisters in Christ (all three branches), why would we not want each other to be nourished in the sacrament of the Eucharist together? Personally, I don’t see a compelling reason for us not to share in the Eucharist together (contra Nicholai), even given our differing understandings of what the Eucharist entails (why wouldn’t Eastern Orthodox and Catholics want Protestants to be nourished by the body and blood of Christ?). In fact, it would seem to me the most powerful symbol of local ecumenism, if all three branches of Christendom were able to share in the Eucharist together (either at respective parishes or in community gatherings), alongside of prayer, worship, and working for the common good. (I do want to apologize for using the word “ignorance” in my first post, I don’t think that was a gracious word choice).

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LauraE_75pxLaura Ehlen

Catholic Perspective


The Second Vatican Council proclaimed in its Declaration on Ecumenism (Unitatis Redintegratio), “The restoration of unity among all Christians is one of the principal concerns of the Second Vatican Council.” [1] Division is nothing new in the Church: many of the Eastern Catholic Churches, now reunited, broke off in the very early centuries of the Church, when Alexandria and Antioch were as important as Rome. Rome and Constantinople split in 1054 after years of slow chips and fractures in unity. When the Protestant Reformation happened in the 16th century, numerous new churches arose, divided from both Rome and each other (let us not think for a moment that Henry VIII’s break from Rome had anything to do with an agreement with Luther – quite on the contrary). Early America saw a dramatic increase in new churches, as has the rise of Pentecostalism in the twentieth century. If the Church is the Body of Christ, then we have rendered Christ divided. Catholics pray for unity, fast for unity, weep for unity. That is in part why we acknowledge one Baptism, regardless of denomination.

Initially, when I think of Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant unity, it does not seem too impossible. Yet this is because, until my later years of college, my understanding of Protestantism was limited to traditional, sacramental, and liturgical strands of Lutheranism and Anglicanism. My jaw dropped in a graduate school when I learned that some Protestant/Evangelical groups do not practice Holy Communion. I can now see the possibility of unity between Rome and the East (although, as an Eastern Orthodox priest said to me once, just because one Patriarch wants unity does not mean they all do, especially since some Orthodox Churches, such as Russia, are now so steeped in politics and national boundaries). I can see the possibility of unity with Rome and Lutheranism (and there are already steps down this road), and with Rome and England. However, it is unity between different groups of Protestants poses the greatest difficulty. The question groups Protestant as if it was a church with doctrinal and liturgical unity, as the Catholics and the Orthodox respectively posses, but the reality is quite different. In my personal experience, it is easier to LCMS Lutherans and Catholics to worship together and discuss doctrine than it is for LCMS and ELCA Lutherans.

Any meaningful unity must be based in the Gospel, and this demands that unity must therefore be based in charity. Christ commanded us to love God above all things, and to love our neighbors as ourselves – this is the mandate of charity. This charity calls us to love one another, regardless of whether we label ourselves Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, or Evangelical. We cannot heal the divisions in the Body of Christ if we do not treat each other as Christ commands. If we cannot love each other across denominational boundaries, then how can we really practice love to those outside of the Church? If we cannot obey Christ through our love of other Christians, then how are we to witness to the Gospel for non-believers? In John 13:35, Jesus speaks of the importance of charity for Christian unity and witness: “By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” [2]

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[1] Unitatis Redintegratio.” 1. http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html.

[2] John 13:35, NRSV

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Laura Ehlen

Senior Editor at Conciliar Post

Authors’ response to Catholic perspective

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I appreciate the distinction made here between ELCA and LCMS churches not mainly because I’m Lutheran and like to see the difference acknowledged, but because it leads into the point that when looking for unity and solidarity among Christians, our primary objective should be to find unity in faith and beliefs over unity in name. I do indeed feel more united with some of the writers here on the Conciliar Post belonging to various denominations than I do with certain members of the LCMS (and definitely the ELCA) church bodies. I have Lutheran friends who, upon moving to a new location for school where the LCMS churches around were not faithful, ended up attending churches of other beliefs in name but who were more aligned with the Lutheran church’s confessions than the Lutheran churches around. Thankfully I have never been in this situation myself, but I think it is important for us to look for where the Word of God is taught in faith and purity over where we can find individuals using the same name as ourselves. In our search for meaningful unity, we should seek unity in teaching and understanding rather than specifically looking for unity within or across denominations.

-Nicholai Stuchwisch

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Thank you, Laura, for your well balanced approach to this delicate issue. I believe you hit the nail on the head when you said we must love one another—even across denominational lines. After all, if we cannot do this, how are we to think we could love one another if we were united? What a wonderful insight! Ultimately the goal is love. This specific issue of Christian unity—and dogma!—often brings with it much prejudice and emotional energy. Love can span across all of this without sacrificing dogma. Love will shed light where facts fail.

-Ben Cabe

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I’m all about Laura’s post in many respects. Her emphasis on charity (such a cool term, we Protestants only have “love”) is right on. Meaningful unity cannot exist unless, as Laura points out, we (1) have charity, (2) acknowledge one Baptism, and (3) weep for unity. Also, I think she is rightfully upset over the absurd disunity among Protestants. That said, my question for Laura and Ben would be (and I’m very excited for the dialogue to occur in the comment section), “What does meaningful unity look like outside of assimilation?” Given that assimilation is unlikely to occur (on a massive scale) anytime soon, how can we practice what I’m calling “local ecumenism?” In fact, I think local ecumenism is the necessary precondition for assimilation-what I believe should occur within Protestantism.

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Nicholai Stuckwisch _75Nicholai Stuckwisch

Lutheran Perspective


There are times and places when Christianity across denominations can and should unite together as believers in the Apostles’, Athenasian, Nicene Creeds. Likewise, there are times and places where varying denominations, separated by their significant and distinct beliefs, must draw a line and not waver or compromise their beliefs for the sake of earthly harmony. We should always remain resolute and firmly grounded in our beliefs, but against the tyranny and oppression of unbelievers, it is helpful and healthy for the Christian church to stand united, especially in situations where they are persecuted as one.

Right now the Christians of the Middle East are facing extreme persecution from Islamic extremists, and in the United States where pro-abortion movements are attempting to infringe upon our freedom of religion, faithful and believing Christians should absolutely stand united against the forces of the devil, the world, and sinful human nature. When outside forces seek to do bodily harm to mankind, born and unborn as well as Christian and non Christian, those who believe and trust in God’s Word and the Commandments should oppose such evil acts in the name of Christianity and refusing to cooperate together in protest weakens our cause and gives the adversary the opportunity to act without obstacle.

Additionally, we should most certainly pray for all people regardless of their beliefs, and there is absolutely no reason why we should not pray for our brothers and sisters in Christ even if there are many differences within the details of our faiths. When it comes to praying with people of other denominations, we have prayers (the Creeds) dating back to early church that we should confidently be able to pray with other Christians, and Jesus himself gave us the Our Father. I think the Conciliar Post is  an excellent example of a way that Christians of various beliefs can come together, share in their common faith to extent that there is common ground, and work to understand each other better and strength the Church here on earth.

On the other hand, there are noticeable and profound differences between most denominations, and these differences should not be disregarded or undervalued. Differences especially related to the means of salvation, the substance of Holy Communion, and the purpose and effect of Baptism are so incredibly important and are the source of extreme differences in belief among various denominations. When two sets of Christians cannot agree of what Communion is, than they absolutely should not communion together. If you honestly believe that Communion is Body and Blood of our Lord and Savior then in no way should you consider communing at a church where they believe otherwise.

In summary, we should stand together behind our common beliefs whenever possible, but when it comes to sacraments like Communion, a line must be drawn and never should your confession and beliefs for the sake appeasing others or soothing disagreements.

 

Nicholai Stuckwisch

Author at Conciliar Post

Authors’ response to Lutheran perspective

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I wholeheartedly agree with your emphasis that some degree of unity between all Christian denominations, especially with the dire situations facing Christianity across the world. The question then emerges of how we maintain this united front to the public eye when we ourselves are divided on certain hot-button issues. Take, for example, the Nye-Ham debate from earlier this year: some evangelicals are vehemently opposed to evolution, and it is part of their beliefs therefore to defend strict creationism, while other denominations such as Catholics accept both evolution and creation and so felt the debate did not demand protest. Even on the issue of birth control and the HHS Mandate, Christians do not present a united front (Hobby Lobby did not oppose contraceptives, only abortifacients, while Catholic groups like Little Sisters). Clearly, this united public front cannot appear in the political sphere; as you emphasize, a united front does not appear in the how we worship (sacraments) or what we believe and preach (doctrine and dogma). Is prayer then the answer to this united front? If so, what would inter-Christian prayer look like, when you gather together Catholics, Orthodox, Lutheran, Reformed, Pentecostals, charismatics, Evangelicals, and so on?

-Laura Ehlen

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When you mentioned the Christians in the Middle East my mind raced to the unity being displayed among Christians and Muslims. If anything we should be loving and respectful because we are all human beings made in the image and likeness of God. You are absolutely right that we must stand with one another—and yet, boundaries do need to be drawn. This is quite important and often misunderstood by those who are confounded by the practice of closed communion. Thanks for your contribution, Nicholai.

-Ben Cabe

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I find it fascinating that both Nicholai and I, as Protestants, latched onto the question differently than Laura and Ben. Due to our Protestant background, we view “unity” not necessarily as a question of assimilation, but as one of local community between traditions. I think his emphases on both common creeds and the fight for religious freedoms are right on. I think Nicholai’s post raises a fascinating question, namely, “Should/How should Christians have unity in the public sphere?” That is one huge and multifaceted question that I hope gets some discussion in the comment section. I think this is one arena in which Protestants can learn from Catholics, who, it seems to me, have a consistent public ethic (Pro-Life, Pro-Family, preferential option for the poor, Catholic social thought on the economy, etc.) without wanting to ally the church with a political party.

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31 responses to “Round Table: Christian Unity”

  1. Ben Cabe Avatar

    Responding to George’s response to my contribution:

    As Kierkegaard reminds us in Purity of Heart to Will One Thing, medicine, when used incorrectly, can do more harm than good. From an Eastern perspective, participation in the Eucharist presupposes participation in the other liturgical healing processes of the Church: Having been baptized and chrismated, regular confession (and absolution—for in some cases a priest may pastorally withhold the Eucharist from a parishioner), Fasting, Prayer life, et al.

    Secondly, the Eucharist is what constitutes the Church. Even if a number of varying Christian traditions gathered to serve the community together (which I believe we should do) what is it that makes this act uniquely Christian? What is it that principally unites us as a Christian community—save a similar confession in the birth, death, and resurrection of our Lord? Could not varying philanthropic atheists, buddhists, and hindus put aside their differences and do the same thing based around a general tenet that compassion and such service is a good thing? What unites us is the Eucharist. As Met. Kallistos says,

    “Christ instructed his apostles, not ‘say this’ but do ‘this’. He gave them an action, not just words . . . This then is the essential unique task of the church: to celebrate the eucharist. The Church is a eucharistic organism that is actualized in space and time through the offering of the Divine Liturgy. When the Church celebrates the liturgy, then and only then, does it become truly itself. The Church makes the Eucharist; the eucharist makes the Church.”

    So it could be posed, why not all partake of the sacrament together? Notwithstanding the first reason, the Eucharist is primarily the an act of consummation. What we cannot fail to understand is the role of the Church—and we are not just talking about an “invisible Church” we are talking about a concrete reality instituted by Christ. It would seem scandalous to an Eastern Orthodox Christian to allow someone who has not gone through the engagement process and marriage to allow the consummation—this has a double meaning with the preparation for the Eucharist and the Baptism / Chrismation.

    To Nicholai:

    I agree with you—this is the pinnacle of Christian unity and cannot be enacted or shared until some consensus is met about other issues.

    1. George Aldhizer Avatar
      George Aldhizer

      Ben, thanks for your response. I’m enjoying getting to know Orthodoxy more and more through you and other contributors here. I think I want to say two things in response to your comment, let me know if I’m going off track on the thrust of what you want to say.

      The first would be the question of what constitutes fundamental unity of the church. I think you are interpreting me wrong. I am not saying that Christians working for the common good is “what principally unites us.” I think, as my first post indicates, that the fundamental unity of Christians is Christ, union with him in forgiveness of sins in atonement, union in his righteousness alone, friendship with him in his humanity and suffering, hope in his resurrection, etc etc. What follows from this union, then, is of course catechism, baptism (if not as an infant), and the Eucharist. I think this subtle distinction between your thought and mine is important, because I think it allows for a stronger hope for Christian unity. If unity is fundamentally about a particular understanding of the Eucharist, then all strands of Christendom are, at bottom, not unified. But, if as I argue, union with Christ is what fundamentally binds us together as the body, then we have the obligation, hope, etc. for far more (primarily local) Christian unity than we have today.

      The second question would be whether or not Orthodox, Catholics, and Protestants can share in the Eucharist together. At my Presbyterian church, the precondition for participation in the Lords Supper is faith in Christ. That would allow any Christian to participate. This is actually very different from my Methodist upbringing that explicitly said that the Lords Supper was open to all, Christian and seeker alike. I guess, though I do see the force in having the Eucharist follow from denominational catechism (I may agree with you), my first response is to say that since Christians are fundamentally united not in catechism or in understandings of what the Eucharist entails, but in Christ, then that would open the doors for all of Christendom to partake together.

      This is somewhat of an aside question to Orthodox and Catholics, do you guys think that Protestants are not receiving the Eucharist during their services? Like, do you think that we are not being nourished/receiving the transubstantiated body and blood of Christ?

      1. Ben Cabe Avatar

        Hey George, thanks for you response! I could not agree with you more! Union with Christ is what unites us. This is exactly what I (and I believe Laura and maybe NIcholai too) am saying. The real question is how are we united with Christ? The entire Orthodox Church is built around this. It starts with Baptism, Chrismation, and the culminates in the Eucharist. We also practice fasting to deny ourselves and yearn for Christ, confession, and more.

        The Eucharist effects union with Christ and union with one another as the body of Christ—it is most certainly not our understanding of belief about it that unites but rather our participation in it. This being the case, our belief and understanding about it is important because the Church cares for our well-being—and because she cares for our well-being she will not allow us to partake of the blessed mystery unless we confess it to be the body and blood of Christ. But, as above, it is not this belief that unites us but the action!

        We take into ourselves daily nourishment, breakfast, lunch, dinner, and transform it into ourselves as blood, energy, etc. When we take in the divine food we are changed into Him. I think we agree so much more than we are letting on; it is amazing. Union with Christ is what unites us; the Eucharist effects union with Christ. The entire Orthodox practice is devoted to this union with Christ.

      2. George Aldhizer Avatar
        George Aldhizer

        Right, yeah. I’m with you. I guess I don’t want to separate ongoing “union with Christ” from those other (very important) details of the Christian life (baptism, confession, etc). But I do want to say that, at bottom, all of Christendom is united with Christ. We are all saved by grace through faith. It seems that you are saying that Christians are fundamentally not united with Christ unless they partake of the Eucharist within the Eastern Orthodox church. I think that’s why I do not believe that “Union with Christ is what unites us; the Eucharist effects union with Christ” is the fundamental way of viewing Christian unity.

        It seems that that statement rules out seeing all of Christendom as fundamentally united, and seeing only the Eastern Orthodox as fundamentally united. Do you understand my concern? I think that is why, as a Protestant, it hurts me when I am not offered the Eucharist at a Catholic church, because I am a brother in Christ! I want to be nourished by the body and the blood!

        Hopefully this makes sense. You’re totally right, we are more on the same page than we let on. That is absolutely why it would be a travesty for local congregations of whatever tradition distance themselves from one another.

      3. Michael R. Shelton Avatar
        Michael R. Shelton

        To your last questions, the condition for receiving the Eucharist is that the person is in communion with the Catholic Church at that time (meaning no mortal sin and a faithfully practicing Catholic). This means it’s not only excluded from non-Catholics but also from Catholics that are in need of reconciliation first. (This is usually a personal decision, but sometimes it can be refused, I believe, due to excommunication.) I’m told that the exclusion is based on the idea that taking Communion is a /public/ affirmation of one’s union in faith, shepherding, and something else (I forget), which would be bearing false witness if one isn’t already Catholic. Therefore, I don’t see this practice being shared with Protestants in the way it’s currently understood. (I think there is technical difference between East and West, like one can receive communion in one but not the other. I forget which.)

        Anyway, I don’t know if Protestants are receiving the transubstantiated body and blood of Christ. I believe it happens at Mass, but I cannot say whether God, in His loving mercy and understanding, doesn’t share the miracle–even if it isn’t done in a proper setting or proper ritual or through the authority of apostolic succession. I just don’t know. Most protestants I know don’t accept the Real Presence, though.

        Perhaps someone will correct me if I am wrong.

      4. Ben Cabe Avatar

        From what I have read, the Roman Catholic Church does allow Eastern Orthodox at the chalice in some cases (which are largely based on the local priest etc). But the Eastern Orthodox are not encouraged to (and are actually encouraged not to) participate in communion in any other tradition.

  2. Chris Cam Smith Avatar
    Chris Cam Smith

    George, do Presbyterians practice communion? Laura, I had the same reaction as you when I learned the opposite. I grew up believing communion was something unique to Catholics. I was shocked the first time my wife and I saw it being performed in a Methodist Church. I had no idea it was a central and historic practice of the Church. I get the sense from all of your responses that the Eucharist is really the most important factor in Christian unity. Is communion non-existent in Baptist, non-denominational, and Pentecostal/Charismatic churches or do some churches within these groups practice the sacrament?

    1. George Aldhizer Avatar
      George Aldhizer

      Right, I’m with C.T. I think it’s a travesty for communion to be practiced only once a month. I grew up in a methodist church that only does it once a month.

      At my church, a Presbyterian (PCA) church, The Lords Supper is the climax of the service. Not the sermon. The sermon, worship, prayer, corporate confession, announcements, (sometimes) pronouncement of a creed/confessional statement, tithes and offerings, are all done prior to the Eucharist. And, from what I understand, the reformers thought of the Eucharist as the climax of the liturgy (obviously not original to them). I find this incredibly refreshing, and like Leithart says, Protestants must not operate as if we define ourselves as anti-Catholic.

      I know it is controversial, but as a Protestant I don’t think that the Eucharist is the most important factor in Christian unity. I think the more fundamental “union with Christ” is. That is why, as a Protestant, I don’t place primacy on a divine liturgy, a certain understanding of the Eucharist, or a Church hierarchy when discussing Christian unity. Not that these issues aren’t of very serious importance, but they are not fundamental to me in the way it is to Ben and Laura. That is why I have a lot of hope in authentic local Christian unity, because we are all brothers and sisters in Christ.

    2. Jacob Avatar
      Jacob

      Most often the differences between various churches regarding communion are doctrinal/sacramental understanding and frequency. There are very few churches which do not practice communion at all (but they are out there). More common in the American context are “monthly” (as George noted) and “quarterly” (as in one of the churches I grew up attending) celebration of communion.

    3. Nicholai Stuckwisch Avatar
      Nicholai Stuckwisch

      Chris, I think the the biggest differences between denominations (although my knowledge is limited) is not so much whether or not they participate in communion but A) how often the celebrate the Lord’s Supper B) whether or not they believe it is the actual Body and Blood of Christ or a symbol, and C) whether or not they believe wine (aka alcohol) should be used as part of the Eucharist.

      Of those three, I think the second is the primary cause of dissension and separation between denominations, but the other two are not insignificant. The first, while certainly important, isn’t necessarily something specifically addressed by denominations as a whole and can potentially be based more on individual congregations. Within the Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod, it fairly common for congregations to offer the Lord’s Supper every other Sunday, but there are churches that sadly have it only once a month and there are churches (like my own) that don’t only have communion every Sunday but also on feast and saints days throughout the weekdays as well.

  3. Chris Cam Smith Avatar
    Chris Cam Smith

    Ben, I wanted to ask you about unity between the Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Churches. Are these two churches participating in talks? Is there more or less agreement here than there is between Catholic and Orthodox Christians? From my understanding the Oriental and Eastern Churches have no disagreement on the Eucharist, their main beef is over christology. Is the difference between the two significant and irreconcilable or is it just the trap of language?

    1. Ben Cabe Avatar

      Chris, thanks for the question. This is something I wanted to address but did not have time to. It must be fully acknowledge that we must first fix our own problems. The oriental disagreement spanning back to the fourth ecumenical council is a travesty; most believe it is just a trap if language and there have been movements to reunite. I pray that this will happen very soon.

  4. Michael R. Shelton Avatar
    Michael R. Shelton

    Fascinating. As a Catholic, I totally agree about the significance of the Eucharist (being the source and summit of my faith) and the centrality of it in the Liturgical life, but I’m not sure it qualifies as the source of unity even in the Catholic Church, much less in communion with the separated brethren. For instance, when someone commits a mortal sin in the CC and isn’t ready for the sacrament of Reconciliation, he or she stops receiving Communion but continues to practice the faith and pray for the strength to reconcile once again. (This happens, especially with folks going through a civil divorce.) Or, to give a more concrete example, my six year-old isn’t even old enough to receive Communion, yet he and the previous example are no less Catholic. They hold the same beliefs but are in different states in their relationship to God, which (being sinners) can be difficult. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but what I thought gave them their Christian unity was their faith in God (we say the creed all the time) and baptism.

    “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.” Ephesians 4:4-6

    Don’t get me wrong. No Eucharist in the Liturgical Life is like a sexless marriage, but it’s still a marriage nonetheless. And if that the case, isn’t there hope in reunion with many Protestant sects by virtue of a common baptism? I bet there are a lot of parallels between our divisions and the “divisions” of the early church between Jew and Gentile.

    Since this differs somewhat from what most of you are saying, what do you think?

    1. Michael R. Shelton Avatar
      Michael R. Shelton

      I did not notice the hidden responses below each post. I hope I didn’t repeat too much of what was already stated. lol

      1. Chris Cam Smith Avatar
        Chris Cam Smith

        I didn’t notice that either until seeing this comment. I just had a chance to read them.

    2. Ben Cabe Avatar

      This is a great contribution that reveals some of the differences between the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholics. As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, our two-year-old son (and our soon to be born daughter) receives the Eucharist—as we do not believe Christianity is as much based on rational consent (what would this mean for the mentally handicapped?) as much as participation. It’s like a family . . .

      1. Michael R. Shelton Avatar
        Michael R. Shelton

        Oh, cool. I did not know that! 🙂 What does this verse mean to you then: “For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.” 1 Cor 11:29

      2. Ben Cabe Avatar

        I think it depends on how we understand discerning. I do not have a polished answer to this but my initial thoughts are this is a family affair that even we are guilty of participating of unworthily. That being said, God is gracious and loving—suffer not the children to come to me! (granted not within the context of the eucharist explicitly)—and it should also be noted that our understanding of original sin is slightly different than the Roman Catholics 🙂 We tend to call it ancestral sin in order to delineate this difference.

      3. Michael R. Shelton Avatar
        Michael R. Shelton

        Not trying to be argumentative. Are you saying that nobody is worthy of receiving communion; therefore, anybody can take it? Also, how can a newborn discern anything? (Again, not trying to be argumentative. I just want to understand what you mean.)

      4. Ben Cabe Avatar

        Every Sunday before we take the Eucharist the priest proclaims, “The Holy things are for the Holy” and then the people sing, “One is Holy, One is Lord, Jesus Christ, to the glory of God the Father. Amen.”

        Can a mentally handicapped person take the Eucharist? Same problem. Ultimately, it is a mystery.

      5. Michael R. Shelton Avatar
        Michael R. Shelton

        Not exactly. We had a mentally handicapped person join our parish a few years ago–he was also deaf–, and it was controversial when he took First Communion. He didn’t understand the depths of the sacrament by any means, but he could articulate to our priest that it was Jesus’ body and that he had to go to Confession first if had done anything wrong via a primitive form of sign language. I don’t know how much of that was just regurgitating what he had been told, but it was apparently good enough for the priest. (He died about a year ago, I believe.) I don’t believe a newborn or a young toddler can even do that. You can see how I might have trouble understanding when what appears to be a contradiction of Scripture and then justify it as a “mystery.”

        But then again, that’s sort of demonstrates why my original point is actually invalid. Now that I think about it, I’m probably wrong.

        There are bigger separations between Eastern and Western orthodoxies (like Papal Primacy), but this isn’t small, either. It’s very similar to what my Protestant friends would say about Infant Baptism. And since my whole post was expressing unity in baptism, I imagine there would be significant difficulty for someone that treats the sacrament as a choice (instead of a gift) when infants are incapable of making such a choice. So I guess that’s out the window.

        And despite my affection for “loving thy neighbor” as a point of unity (as Laura pointed out), there can be significant differences in what that means. From what I can tell, there can be controversy when someone demonstrates (quite honestly) “tough” love when another wants a more compassionate approach. The Amish practice of shunning comes to mind.

        I’m glad smarter and holier people than myself are working toward ecumenism, because I would lose sight of the forest for the trees. Thanks for your thoughts, Ben. 🙂

      6. Ben Cabe Avatar

        Thanks, Michael.

        The only thing I have to add is how are we to know? I believe that infants can perceive things that we ourselves cannot. And discerning does not necessarily have to mean a rational process. Ultimately, I say just seek The Lord and work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

      7. Michael R. Shelton Avatar
        Michael R. Shelton

        I’m good at beating a discussion to death, so politely let me know if you’re not interested in talking anymore. 😉 I am really interested in what you mean by (for lack of a better term) “irrational discernment.” Being someone who over-thinks things (trying to understand the profound mysteries of our faith with such a limited mind), I could benefit from other processes or methods of discernment.

      8. Ben Cabe Avatar

        We must be careful not to fall into a false dichotomy between differing “processes or methods of discernment.” To say that it is not the rational faculty of the soul that discerns something is not the same as saying the faculty that does discern it is irrational. We must tread carefully here—for indeed this is a great mystery. The nous is that which we are talking about. This Greek word, Nous, is often translated as “mind” in the New Testament but does not mean exactly what we do when we talk about the mind today—for we tend to mean the rational faculty. The Nous, however, is super-rational. It is in and through the nous that we find and are able to communicate with God. When the fathers talk about praying they talk about the need to place the rational mind in the heart (here, nous not cardia). “Descend into the heart”.

        On a purely experiential level, I believe, that people sense and discern things without the rational understanding of it all the time—even if they are not “rationally recognize” that they do this. One instance would be love. Can we rationally explain love or the feeling that emerges when someone affirms you? (I am not talking biologically).

        In a world where Christianity has, by and large, been relegated to a psychological relationship with Jesus, it is the experiential reality that needs to, again, be discovered. This why we must “do” and not “say”, experience and not over rationalize. Taste and see that the Lord is good.

      9. Benjamin Cabe Avatar

        Also not exclusively within the context of “participating unworthily” or “not discerning” but it should be noted that the Eucharist is for the modern Christian, similar to what circumcision was for the Children of Israel.

      10. Michael R. Shelton Avatar
        Michael R. Shelton

        I thought that’s what baptism was.

      11. Benjamin Cabe Avatar

        Forgive me! You are right. I’m all muddled at the moment—no excuse. I knew that did not sound right.

  5. George Aldhizer Avatar
    George Aldhizer

    So, here’s an open question for everyone. What do we think about Christian unity in terms of the public sphere? Should our engagement with politics (or more broadly the common good) have something of a united front?

    1. Michael R. Shelton Avatar
      Michael R. Shelton

      Perhaps on some very basic issues (like the pro-life cause or some broad arena surrounding religious liberty), but I understand we all have disagreements on many policies that serve the common good. Speaking from a purely Catholic perspective, we have disagreements all the time; the UCCB speak for us and try to unite with other faiths about a given policy but that doesn’t mean that Catholics are going to agree, much less vote that way. We can’t even get our own stuff together. lol My two cents.

      1. George Aldhizer Avatar
        George Aldhizer

        Yeah, I don’t think we will (should?) get to a place where we agree on policy prescriptions/politicians to elect etc. I think there should be a distinction made between the basic truths of the gospel (forgiveness, resurrection, atonement, creation, kingdom for the liberation of the poor) and the implications of those basic truths (government/market interaction, foreign policy, etc.

        Though, the problem I find is that the christian communities of which I am a part don’t have an excitement/understanding that the gospel has these implications! I think I am upset both by this lack of understanding and by the assumption that Republicanism has become the default Christian party line. So, for me, it is less of “getting our stuff together,” as you say (which is very important), and more of understanding that there is stuff to get together. There is poverty, there are systematic injusticies, there is war, we live in a consumer society, and the gospel has implications for all of these things.

    2. Nicholai Stuckwisch Avatar
      Nicholai Stuckwisch

      Honestly, I think the public sphere is one of the places where Christians of various denominations should be able to stand united together. As long as we can agree that things like abortion and the suffering and persecution of our fellow Christians in the Middle East is evil and against God’s law, we should be able to stand together and oppose these things even though we have varied theological beliefs.

      I think there is a lot of good that can come from Christians working together in the political realm. Even where there are differing opinions from denomination to denomination about the responsibilities and roles of the government, as long as political interactions do not compromise or infringe on the confessions of a denomination, when it comes to caring for the temporal needs of the public and the formation/execution of our nation’s laws there is a lot of potential for Christian communities to come and work together in a Godly and worthwhile way.

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