In my last post, I promised my readers that I would post a follow-up argument from the Scriptures on behalf of the “Catholic interpretation of ‘justification by faith:’ i.e., continual, infused righteousness, sacramentally transmitted, on the basis of faith that is ongoing and uninterrupted by mortal sin.” After I began an outline for that argument, I quickly realized I could not do it justice in a single post. Therefore, I have narrowed my argument in this second part to an examination of Romans 4, one of the key texts (if not the key text) in the Protestant-Catholic debate on justification. I hope that my interpretive efforts will be sufficient to clarify Paul’s beliefs about justification, as well as to lay a groundwork for a traditional, Catholic understanding of the salvation process.

The Apostle uses two texts to drive his point on justification home: Genesis 15 and Psalm 32. Both texts are extremely informative. Paul’s decision to quote Genesis 15, the passage where God promises descendants to Abraham, is revealing for several reasons. First, Genesis 15 is not the point where the Bible first speaks of Abraham having justifying faith. In fact, Abraham first displayed God-pleasing faith when he left Ur to follow God in Genesis 12: as Hebrews says, “By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place which he was to receive as an inheritance” (Hebrews 11:8). Importantly, the author of Hebrews (regardless of whether or not he was St. Paul) indisputably uses “faith” in the Pauline sense of the word, so attempts to argue that Abraham only showed a dead faith in Genesis 12 bear little weight from a Protestant or Catholic perspective.

However, if Abraham was justified by faith in Genesis 12, then the traditional Protestant understanding of justification demands that his justification end there. Unlike sanctification, justification is a one-time, imputed event in Protestant theology. It is not repeated and not continual. Abraham cannot be justified in Genesis 12 and also in Genesis 15.

However, this is exactly what Romans 4 indicates. The Apostle clearly believes that Genesis 15 was a justifying event. St. Paul quotes Genesis 15—“Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness” (Genesis 15:6, Romans 4:3)—and uses that verse to prove that justification is through faith, not works of the law. This statement is easy to accept if one understands that justification is a continual process, but difficult to believe otherwise. If justification is a one-time event, then Paul has misidentified Abraham’s moment of justification, since that process already occurred in Genesis 12.

My most intelligent Protestant friends tell me that Paul is not concerned with the specific moment of justification when he quotes Genesis 15. Rather, he uses Genesis 15—a passage which, they tell me, merely gives the reader further evidence of Abraham’s justification by faith in Genesis 12—to establish that justification is through faith. In this understanding of the text, the precise events and timeline of Genesis 15 are unimportant. Only the principle of faith and justification is important for Paul’s purposes; Genesis 15 is a reflection of that principle, not an account of Abraham’s moment of justification.

This approach runs counter to the rest of the text. Paul is imminently concerned with proving that Genesis 15 is an actual moment of justification. He takes the time to point out the timeline in which the events of Genesis unfold: “How then was it reckoned to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised” (Romans 4:10). The only reason why Paul would point this out is if he believes that the moment in time that Genesis 15 occurs in is an actual moment of justification.    

The text of Genesis 15 itself also leaves little doubt that Abraham’s reckoning of righteousness was a direct result of his belief of God’s promise in Genesis 15. The Scripture simply reads that the Lord “brought him outside and said, “Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” And he believed the Lord; and he reckoned it to him as righteousness” (Genesis 15:5-6). There is no gap between the specific, Genesis 15 promise and the act of reckoning; there is nothing to lead the reader to conclude that the reckoning is separate from the belief in Genesis 15.

Furthermore, Romans painstakingly documents the particular promise in which Abraham believes, and is subsequently reckoned as righteous for believing. That promise is, word-for-word, the promise given in Genesis 15: “So shall your descendants be” (Romans 4:18, Genesis 15:5). While a somewhat related promise which also makes a reference (albeit brief) to descendants appears in Genesis 12, Paul does not quote from that Scripture to recount the point of Abraham’s justification. That is not to say that Abraham did not have justifying faith in Genesis 12, of course: Hebrews 11 makes this fact quite clear. Rather, it shows that Abraham experienced multiple instances of justification.

If we allow James’ discussion of justification to be considered in this exegesis, which I think we should for the reasons I outlined in my previous essay, the case becomes stronger still. James 2 references the events of Genesis 22—Abraham’s offering of Isaac—as a third moment of justification for Abraham. The sojourner from Ur is a classic example of how man is justified by faith, but he is also an example of how justification is a continual process. In the course of ten chapters, Abraham is (according to the New Testament) justified three different times.

Before we go into a linguistic analysis of Genesis 15 and Paul’s quotation of it, I should note that the phrase “reckoned to him as righteousness,” used to describe Abraham’s justification, only appears one other time in the Old Testament: Psalm 106. The relevant passage is worth quoting in its entirety:

“Then they attached themselves to the Ba′al of Pe′or,

and ate sacrifices offered to the dead;

they provoked the Lord to anger with their doings,

and a plague broke out among them.

Then Phin′ehas stood up and interposed,

and the plague was stayed.

And that has been reckoned to him as righteousness

from generation to generation for ever” (Psalm 106:28-31).

The incident which the Psalmist is recalling is recorded in Numbers 25. Phin’ehas, overcome by righteous anger, stabs an Israelite man and a Midianite woman who boldly engaged in inappropriate relations such that the spear went through the woman and into the man. On account of his action, the Lord stays a plague that He had inflicted upon the Israelites.

Phin’ehas’ act is clearly a work. Yet the Psalmist uses the exact same phrase to describe the reward for Phin’ehas’ action that he does to describe Abraham’s justification. Furthermore, it seems clear that the Psalmist (or, at the very least, the Holy Spirit) would be aware that the phrase “reckoned to him as righteousness” was only used in one other place in the Old Testament; Phine’has’ action and Abraham’s belief alone merit the usage of this precise expression. Therefore, it seems clear that the phrase “reckoned to him as righteousness” should be understood as something that can happen as a result of faith and works. It also seems clear, if one assumes that Phine’has’ righteous anger shows that he had, at some time prior, adopted a faith in God, that Phine’has also experienced multiple justification events. Therefore, in both cases that the phrase “reckoned to him as righteousness” is used (presumably used both times as a synonym for justification), it refers to a continual process that involves works as well as faith.

If we accept that everything I have said so far is true, then the interpretative battle between Catholics and Protestants on the meaning of Romans 4 is considerably weighted towards the Catholic side. Rather than a one-time event brought about by faith alone, justification seems to be a continual process that relies on both faith and works (keeping in mind, of course, that the works Paul condemns are works of the Law, a matter which I discussed in my previous essay).

The phrase “reckoned to him as righteousness” also helps clear up the matter of imputed vs. infused righteousness. The key word in this phrase is “reckoned,” or λογίζομαι (logizomai). While much more educated men than me have discussed the etymology, usage, and translation of this word, I will point out one important truth here: the lexical range of this word in the Scripture (and, to my knowledge, in the whole of Greek literature) indicates a consideration or a regarding of some such thing as being some such thing. That conclusion may, of course, be incorrect: for example, the Scripture says that Christ “was reckoned with transgressors” (Luke 22:37). However, in this context, Scripture heavily implies that there was in error in reckoning. The purpose of reckoning is to reckon correctly. For example, Paul uses this word in Romans 8:18 when he says that “I consider (Λογίζομαι) that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.”

God’s reckoning, of course, would not have any error. He would correctly judge the condition of a man. Therefore, when the Scripture says that “it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” it should be understood to mean that God correctly recognized that Abraham’s faith (or Phine’has’ work) was righteous. This is in stark contrast to the traditional Protestant interpretation, which casts God’s reckoning as a kind of transfer of alien righteousness. Given the Greek, this interpretation seems untenable.  

While I am performing this amatuer Greek translation, I might as well address the other crucial word in Romans 4: “justify,” or δικαιόω (dikaioó). Of course, this word implies a legal declaration of righteousness. What is less well-known is that the word entails an accurate judgment regarding the true state of something (or someone). Δικαιόω and its cognates are always used in this sense throughout the Bible. The clearest meaning of the word is apparent when people in the New Testament “justify” their actions or God’s actions (Luke 10:29, Acts 19:40, etc.). It is unthinkable to say that this justification is separate from reality. Yet Protestant doctrine teaches that justification is not a reflection of inward reality, but rather a judicial decree apart from our true state. This is simply not good Greek. Only Catholic doctrine of “infused righteousness” (that is to say, we are justified by God’s gracious renewal of our inward state) fits the obvious sense of δικαιόω.

We will discuss the interpretative ramifications for this in a moment. Before that, we must establish a basic understanding of the other text Paul quotes in Romans 4: Psalm 32. The quotation reads as follows: “So also David pronounces a blessing upon the man to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not reckon his sin” (Romans 4:6-8).

Interestingly, this text (the second Old Testament text that Paul uses to discuss his view of justification) also does not point to an initial moment of faith. In fact, it refers to David’s faith in God after he committed some sin (possibly the sin with Bathsheba). In any case, this incident also occurs after David’s first justification. Our initial conclusions, drawn from Paul’s choice to quote Genesis 15 rather than Genesis 12, seem to be further reinforced by this second Old Testament reference. In neither case does Paul reference a one-time event; the Catholic view of continual justification seems to be a better fit for the argument Paul makes.

Of course, one could argue that David is merely making reference to his imputed righteousness when he pronounces this blessing. However, the context of Psalm 32 seems to heavily imply that David’s initial justification is not the justifying event to which the Psalm is referring. Instead, Psalm 32:3-5 says that:

“When I declared not my sin, my body wasted away

through my groaning all day long.

For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me;

my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer. Selah

I acknowledged my sin to thee,

and I did not hide my iniquity;

I said, “I will confess my trangressions to the Lord”;

then thou didst forgive the guilt of my sin. Selah”

This portion of the Psalm seems to prove that the justifying event to which Psalm 32 points is an event of repentance, not of initial conversion. The last part of Psalm 32:5 indicates a chronological order: “I said, “I will confess my trangressions to the Lord”; then thou didst forgive the guilt of my sin” (Psalm 32:5). It seems obvious that David experienced true justification before confessing the sin referred to in Psalm 32, but at the same time, David admits that the Lord forgave his sin after confessing. Once again, this seems entirely possible if justification is continual, but seems to undermine a view that justification occurs at one moment in time.

One last textual argument that regards Romans 4 should be addressed. I have already pointed out in a separate article how Romans 4:25 reflects upon the Catholic and Protestant theories of atonement, so rather than rehash my arguments I will merely link to that post and urge the reader to consider my commentary on Romans 4:25 an extension of this article.

In sum, I think that a Catholic reading of Romans 4, using the definitions of faith, works, justification, and reckoning that I have so far discussed, fits the text much better than the Protestant alternative. The Old Testament context, as well as the wording that Paul chooses to adopt, seems to strongly indicate uniquely Catholic presuppositions about soteriology. In my next post, I will continue this series by taking a broader look at the Pauline epistles, using the interpretative framework I have attempted to establish in this post.

 

Image from Daniel Steinberg and found here.

8 responses to “Justification in Catholicism, Part II: Romans 4”

  1. Elizabeth Avatar

    Interesting thoughts, thanks for your very meticulous clearly written essay. I am not as familiar with RC thought. I see that you are contrasting it to Protestant thought, which is fair enough and normal given your personal trajectory.

    I am wondering about this part of your essay:

    . “That conclusion may, of course, be incorrect: for example, the Scripture says that Christ “was reckoned with transgressors” (Luke 22:37). However, in this context, Scripture heavily implies that there was in error in reckoning. ”

    While I understand, I believe, what you mean here: while Christ was ‘reckoned with transgressors’ of who He was NOT one. I agree and in that sense it is incorrect. Yet, the Scripture I think, to be more exacting perhaps, IS true in what it says – it is not incorrect to say that Christ was reckoned with the transgressors. Astonishing, YES! That Christ would choose to so empty Himself that he was thought to be not only merely a human (instead of the Incarnate Son of God) but that He was publicly thought and punished as a transgressor, that He was ‘reckoned with them’. I would say that it is BECAUSE He did this, taking on our shame, that is in part what saves us.

    I am not sure where (what part of RC) you are basing your thoughts on these passages. I would love to understand the source/s. I read a fascinating chapter in a newer book by an Eastern Orthodox monastic (https://www.stspress.com/shop/books/orthodox-spiritual-life/acquiring-the-mind-of-christ-embracing-the-vision-of-the-orthodox-church/), that has a chapter on the views of the atonement East and West. Admittedly, this book, being written by an Orthodox Christian, is very much from the EO viewpoint and not fully in favour of the RC or Protestant view. That said, I would love to understand where the ” Catholic doctrine of “infused righteousness”” is from. Thanks! God bless!

    1. Christian McGuire Avatar
      Christian McGuire

      Hi Elizabeth,

      Yes; thank you for the clarification. You are absolutely right: Christ was reckoned by us as a transgressor, truly, yet he was not a transgressor.

      I have been trying to understand Romans 4 and related passages based purely using, as Martin Luther once demanded, “reason or the Scriptures.” However, I will freely admit my indebtedness to one Robert Sungenis who wrote a book entitled “Not By Faith Alone” on this topic.

      Eastern Orthodoxy is interesting because I think its primary differences with Rome are not of doctrine, but of cultural vantage point. Its view of theosis, for example, I would say is just a different way of thinking about infused righteousness. Something I wrote immediately after my conversion conveys this truth well without explicitly stating it:

      “Although Protestants often charge Catholics as preaching a works-based salvation, this is a misunderstanding. Catholics see salvation as almost a state of being. That state of being is a full and complete union with Christ. In a sense, heaven is solely the perfect presence of God in one’s life. To put it another way, heaven is the final fruit of sanctification. We are “conformed into the image of the Son” (Romans 8:29); we are “partakers of the divine essence” (2 Peter 1:4); we actually “become His righteousness” (2 Corinthians 5:21). It is true that this occurs through the sacraments and good works. But these things are merely another way of saying that we enter heaven by partaking in God. After all, baptism is being united with Christ’s death (Romans 6:4, Colossians 2:12), and communion is a participation in His body and blood (1 Corinthians 10:16). Good works are both an expression of the God that is love (1 John 4:8) and acts of love towards Christ himself (Matthew 25:40). Therefore, salvation is ultimately about a relationship with Christ.”

      1. Elizabeth Avatar

        Hi Christian,

        thanks for the reply!

        Great to know that you were using the book you mentioned + your own read of Scripture when dealing with Romans ch 4.

        You wrote:

        “Eastern Orthodoxy is interesting because I think its primary differences with Rome are not of doctrine, but of cultural vantage point. Its view of theosis, for example, I would say is just a different way of thinking about infused righteousness. Something I wrote immediately after my conversion conveys this truth well without explicitly stating it:”

        Interesting. I don’t know enough to comment on what you wrote above.

        The term ‘infused righteousness” is unfamiliar to me.

        Here’s what I found online about it:

        Google said and linked to:

        “Infused righteousness forms the basis for the doctrine of justification in the Roman Catholic Church and is rooted in the theology of Thomas Aquinas. The doctrine states that through keeping the commands of Christ, regular confession and penance, and receiving the sacraments, God’s grace/righteousness is “infused” in believers more and more over time, and their own “righteousness in the flesh” becomes subsumed into God’s righteousness.”
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infused_righteousness

        III. The doctrine of “infused righteousness” teaches that God justifies in accord with a righteousness merited by Christ instilled into the believer and maintained by good works. This doctrine, especially prominent in the Roman Catholic Church, accords with its doctrine of justification by works. It posits the believer receives both imputed and infused righteousness, the latter becoming his inherent righteousness, and one is justified on the basis of what he personally does with it.
        http://www.ccel.org/node/4123

        I would have to know more about Aquinas (sidenote: my Husband said Chesterton’s book, _The Dumb Ox_ which is about him, is said to be very well written and gets to the essence of who Aquinas is/thought) to be able to say more.

        I am not sure if I agree with what you are saying here or not, simply because I need more information. My experience so far tells me that EO has some distinctives that RC does not but I am not sure what and how. Your read of it (which you quoted from an earlier essay you wrote) seems very inline with what I know currently of EO thought but was not aware of it in RC. So something for me to look into. Thank you!

        I can see that the doctrine of *justification* and I think, then, the understanding of atonement are both important to this dicussion. I have been thinking recently on these topics, based both on the book we are reading in our local churches’ class and from various Conciliar Post essays.

        So, I hope to get back to you on this. I think this area is really important and good to talk about what both Protestants, RC and EO think on these things.

        I have noted the book you mentioned; I have a few (well I am reading often between 5-15 books really at all times for various reasons) books I want to read/acquire on the topic, but it’s going to take me some months (realistically speaking) to get to it.

        But I *do* hope to and find this discussion to be of great importance, not to mention fascinating.

        Thanks again so much for your response and the information. Feel free to tell me if you think the few things on infused righteousness are what you are meaning and are true to your knowledge of RC. Also if there are some very succinct places to read on this for RC thought, I would be most happy to know.

        Thanks again! God bless you!

      2. Elizabeth Avatar

        oh: and by what I wrote: “My experience so far tells me that EO has some distinctives that RC does not but I am not sure what and how. ” – I mean in relation to this discussion. I do know many of the differences/distinctives of RC/EO…. but love learning more, etc! :))))

      3. Christian McGuire Avatar
        Christian McGuire

        For sure! Glad I could be of help. The sources that you reference regarding the definition of infused righteousness are correctly stating Catholic doctrine.

        From the Catholic perspective, almost everything affirmed in Eastern Orthodox theology is compatible with Catholicism. Eastern Orthodox are not heretics; they are a part of the Catholic Church, albeit separated. Thus, I usually find the musings of Orthodox theologians and saints on such matters helpful in forming my own opinions and fleshing out concepts that I have only thought of before using a Western paradigm. After all, for the Church to be truly Catholic, it must operate in every intellectual paradigm, Eastern or Western. Of course, the doctrines will stay the same, but they might be thought of and explained differently.

        From what I can tell, the Orthodox generally see it a different way. In my experience, they often reject the helpfulness of using Western paradigms to view theology and insist on the importance of their particular view. In my opinion, this is the greatest barrier to reunion, much more so than any small doctrinal quibbles we may have with each other.

      4. Elizabeth Avatar

        Hi Christian,

        Hmmm. I feel that I am suddenly in a bit of a field with flowers and mines all at once. Let’s unpack this a bit if you don’t mind? I hope not, since we are dialoguing to learn right?.

        I am going to quote you and then respond, inline as it were, with words ‘flower’ for easy to answer and mine for not so easy to answer but will do my best– and with kindness of C. Post has and promotes:

        “For sure! Glad I could be of help. The sources that you reference regarding the definition of infused righteousness are correctly stating Catholic doctrine.”

        Flower: thanks so much, this is helpful!

        “From the Catholic perspective, almost everything affirmed in Eastern Orthodox theology is compatible with Catholicism.”

        Flower + mine: I notice the “almost everything”. I think that it is more a both/and. We have some real differences but some real similarities. What I am appreciating about dialoguing with you is that it will help me understand RC and how EO and RC are in comparison to each other, both in what is the same and what is different. I think there are very likely a lot we have in common – first 1000 years or at least 900 or so we were one church, we love the same Trinitarian God and are both Christians…. And it is really nice of you to appreciate EO theology and see that it has a place in RC and in your world. That’s really nice of you, thank you.

        Mine-field difficulties ahead… However,… I am hearing the (fairly normal I gather) perspective of RC of RC and EO being 2 lungs of the same Church, the Catholic Church of course. What may be hard for you to realize, but if you are going to dialogue with EO and have clarity, kindness and dialogue, it may be helpful to realize that this is the RC view of EO but that the EO has a very different view of both our shared and then not shared history. It’s a difficult truth, but the fact remains that the EO church views that they have THE continuing line of the Apostolic church and view that the West left them. Now I realize this alone is a bit of a mine field and can lead to arguments, hurt feelings or worse. I am not meaning to do any of this by stating what I did. I do think, though, that to really dialouge with the EO you have to try to understand what they are saying to you about RC and about themselves. Now realize that I like RC Christians and am not trying to be disrespectful in anyway. I am merely trying to dialouge and respond to you with what I do know about EO and what they believe…. Remember, I am talking about what EO believe, not telling you that you are by being RC wrong etc. That is not what this discussion is about, but want to be sure to make that clear.

        In effort to explain why I think you are not understanding what EO are saying about themselves is why I have to disagree with the next statement you made here:

        “ Eastern Orthodox are not heretics; they are a part of the Catholic Church, albeit separated. “

        Thanks for that Christian, I know you are being charitable here. I appreciate that. But you must understand that this is the RC view of EO. The EO does not see themselves as part of the RC Church. They do see that they are in schism. What is undeniable is that they have a very different history, trajectory and focus. Language (Greek, Latin), cultural differences, later wars, etc all play in.

        Moving on…quoting you again…

        “Thus, I usually find the musings of Orthodox theologians and saints on such matters helpful in forming my own opinions and fleshing out concepts that I have only thought of before using a Western paradigm. “
        Above is mainly a flower, in that you are saying how EO is helpful to you in your working out of your thoughts in theology. That’s great.

        Not sure what to say here:

        “After all, for the Church to be truly Catholic, it must operate in every intellectual paradigm, Eastern or Western. Of course, the doctrines will stay the same, but they might be thought of and explained differently.”

        That could be, but I would go to George A’s latest essay and my comments about Peter L’ wanting the Protestant church to be all one big (still Protestant) Church. The EO and RC are actually quite different and if the church was ever to be ONE church again, it would be a lot of work and a lot of my concerns about Peter L’s idea would apply here.

        Minefield here:

        “From what I can tell, the Orthodox generally see it a different way. In my experience, they often reject the helpfulness of using Western paradigms to view theology and insist on the importance of their particular view.”

        I can understand how it would be frustrating to be told that the RC view of the EO church (or other matters of theology) is wrong and that they view it differently. And frankly, it IS hard!!! And it is really hard for EO Christians to know how to articulate why they are seeing things their way and not the Western/RC/Protestant way. But what I would suggest – and explain that I am trying to do also – is find out WHY EO are saying that. Go beyond the frustration of the disagreement and that fact that you have a different view than EO. The best thing you may do here is actually do what Tim Keller is advising (yes, the famous Protestant NYC Pastor; of course as EO I don’t agree with every part of his theology but in terms of learning to dialogue with others, he is exceptional and does it “par excellance”): understand the other person’s point of view so well that you can, ultimately “understand the other side so well that their opponents could say, “You represent my position in a better and more compelling way than I can myself”” (pg 4 in his new book _Making Sense of God_. Keller here is talking about secular versus religious/Christian dialogue but the same can apply here. Now, I don’t view you as an ‘opponent’ as it were, but I will say that what I am trying to do, and why I had my questions, was to understand RC better so that I can understand also EO and be able to dialogue.

        Last small-mine:

        “In my opinion, this is the greatest barrier to reunion, much more so than any small doctrinal quibbles we may have with each other.”

        I can understand, based on your RC reasoning, that this can be the case. And that, given that you are RC, makes sense. You are being very logical and correct I think in your RC views of RC and EO.

        But the EO would say that the differences between RC and EO are not small. It could be that the EO Christians feel that they really do have something different and a different perspective. With all goodwill towards you, I suggest that you try to find out why. It’s not that you have to agree with them, but the genius of Conciliar Post is that we can talk about what we believe, what we agree and disagree with and learn from each other. That’s certainly why I am here – to learn – and to have the privilege of writing what I have found in EO and as a Christian and a person living today, in 2016 in New Jersey.

        Again, thanks for your thoughts! Here’s to more learning and dialogue in the days ahead!

      5. Christian McGuire Avatar
        Christian McGuire

        Thank you for your grace. I definitely understand that the EO disagree with RC analysis of where the two Churches stand in relation to one another, I was just offering my candid assessment of the situation. I certainly know that the EO do not share my opinion. In fact, they generally seem pretty vehement in rejecting it.

        I would be interested in hearing why you think that the issues that divide us are theologically significant. For example, to your mind, what is the theological meaning and significance of denying any form of the Spirit’s procession from the Son? Especially considering verses like John 15:26, where Jesus explicitly says that He sends the Spirit to the Apostles? Further, why do you think it is worth splitting the Church over how one recites the Creed?

        Just curious. Obviously, at this point we’ve gotten pretty far away from the original discussion of justification, but I have always been puzzled by EO’s resistance to Catholicism and would like to understand more if I can. The explanation I hear most often is that EO is motivated by “a spirit of schism” and culturally elitist attitudes towards the West, but I would like to hear more from the EO perspective. If that’s another discussion for a different time, however, I understand.

      6. Elizabeth Avatar

        Hi Christian,

        Thanks for your response! and clarification!

        I will try write more tomorrow – but I hope to write on this at some point, but I need to do more reading to do it justice.

        I will say though that while EO disagree, they should do so with Christian charity. Firmness in belief yes but never in hatred.

        I would love to know more of your questions – I can’t answer a lot of them immediately, but would help me know what type of questions are out there to begin with. I do understand that your first question deals with the filioque.

        And I really appreciate your giving me information on what RC believe; while I am a committed EO Christian, I appreciate understanding; if I am to ever articulate what I believe, I better understand other’s perspectives so I can communicate in ways that make sense. 🙂

        May the Lord have mercy on us all!

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